01 Oct 2008 655 views
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I've read a lot of stuff recently ( And some comments on SC!) about the use of Photoshop: 'Pseudo-paintings',  'Over-cooked images', Etc.: what horsesh*t is this??  Why try to stifle creativity?  There seems to be a bunch of narrow -thinking individuals who think that 'Greeting-card' imagery is all...there's more to  modern photography than that!  Let's all shoot puppies in socks, eh? :-)


I've read a lot of stuff recently ( And some comments on SC!) about the use of Photoshop: 'Pseudo-paintings',  'Over-cooked images', Etc.: what horsesh*t is this??  Why try to stifle creativity?  There seems to be a bunch of narrow -thinking individuals who think that 'Greeting-card' imagery is all...there's more to  modern photography than that!  Let's all shoot puppies in socks, eh? :-)

comments (18)

  • tim
  • some were in Armley, Leeds:)
  • 1 Oct 2008, 06:08
ha, well i will second that Dave, i was always led to believe variety was the spice of lifesmile

Love the shot by the way.
Dave Carrington: Thanks, Tim. Glad you like it smile
I just wish I could do stuff that is half as good as yours. richard
Dave Carrington: All smoke & mirrors...
I haven't seen it but I agree with you.
This is strange, is it cross processed? And is it a statue?
btw i like it.
Dave Carrington: Hi, Nig. It's the Tide-Organ on Blackpool's South Beach: when the tide comes in, air is forced through pipes in order to produce musical notes. I didn't cross process, just the usual adjustments: levels, match colour, curves.
Not like you to have a little rant Dave! I have heard similar stupid comments. We used to have the same comments about "darkroom" (remember them) manipulation! These people are only demonstrating their ignorance of both the history of art and photography. Manipulation is king always has been and will continue to be so! Do they think Ansel Adams produced straight prints!!! Having got that off my chest, powerful shot of the Wave Organ.
Dave Carrington: Don't know what came over me, really! It just annoys me that some folk won't dare break with dusty, old traditions that tether them artistically & creatively! OK, rant
  • Padraig
  • United Kingdom
  • 1 Oct 2008, 12:40
I agree, as long as people are being creative with the ol grey matter who gives a toss? After all where do you draw the line, you could say black and white, or creative use of DOF is all manipulation, in which case we would all have to hang up our cameras.

This is awesome, its like a wing shot from some batmanesq passenger plane!
Dave Carrington: Thanks for your support, Padraig! I like 'Batmanesque'!! smile
A while ago I was not so much in favor of (heavily) photoshopped images.
Recently I discovered some interesting points:
1/ what a normal camera captures is not at all what the eye sees; our eyes continuously re-focus on every part, open and close pupils (=aperture) and the brain (tries to) constructs an image in our head
2/ since ages there was/is heavy manipulation in the darkroom
3/ filters like grad ND, polarizers is also some from manipulation; the same applies for many lenses
4/ there is much processing in digital camera to make JPG files; RAW files normally don't look well without any kind of post processing.

So as long it serves your own creativity and the result is beautiful then I'm fine using Photoshop. Personally I don't use but I have my own set of processing tools.

BTW: very nice image, looks nicely dramatic.
Dave Carrington: Well said, Lightning! Glad you like the shot also smile
I never had a darkroom and took mostly slides which you couldn't alter. Then I got a digital camera and I had a computer and a whole new world opened up! I like taking chocolate box pictures, and flowers etc. But I love to twiddle and add layers and push the buttons and see what I can do. The results are pictures. They may be total crap but they are pictures. So rock on Davetongue

PS I like this picture
Dave Carrington: A picture is a picture: if it's not to one's taste, that's fine. But if the only reason you dislike it is the way it was produced, it's not a very objective critique, methinks!
  • VZ
  • United States
  • 1 Oct 2008, 20:14
hahahaha. You're on fire, Dave. The truth is, there is room here for everything and everyone, for purists and for twiddlers. No one forces anyone to look at anything.
What matters to me personally is if the picture has the emotional charge as a final result. Your shot up above is a bright example of that.
Dave Carrington: Eloquently put as always, Victor. I'm not one to moan on, generally, but I think one of the great strengths of SC is the freedom & a sense of encouragement to experiment with photography & most of the bloggers know this!
pass the soapbox son....having shot 10x8 transparencies down to minox black and whites, hand deved extachrome transparencies in deep tanks and developed my own cibachromes, I know digital photography and post processing is an awesome leap forward, hey and its still photography, I'm always confused by film purists who then scan their snaps and post them ont tinterweb and then whinge about digital photography...heres the box back son...til next time! Top shot of the Honking Donkey chest wheezer BTW.
Dave Carrington: Thank you for your support, Citizen Max!
  • Ellie
  • United Kingdom
  • 2 Oct 2008, 13:46
Just because I don't have either the courage or the know-how to do a lot of editing it doesn't mean I don't appreciate the time and effort it takes and also the final product.

Some people are masters of digital manipulation, and would have been masters of the darkroom in the past, so I can't see the difference.

So I'll go back to taking pictures of puppies in socks, if only I could find some, and enjoy looking at the fruits of other people's labour.

By the way, this shot's underexposed! tongue
Dave Carrington: There's always one bloody critic!!! smilesmile
I love this view: it looks like the arm of a bass!
The framing and treatment I like enormously.
Dave Carrington: Merci, Fabrice!!
Couldn't agree more with your comments Dave, Modern photography has much wider boundaries and we should keep pushing them, Well said.

A good view of the strange thing on Blackpool Prom as well.
Dave Carrington: Thank you, Les, & I'm glad we both agree!

It is a strange device which I must confess i've never heard actually
  • shooter
  • Great Britain (UK)
  • 3 Oct 2008, 22:05
DC, I would have to say I agree with you, in fairness to those of the opposing view I can see perhaps where they may be coming from. The trouble is that with the age of digital photography, it is almost impossible to take a bad picture, that said there is an ocean of difference between your non bad picture and what I would consider worthy of praise. The former group try by using PS to improve "the record shot" and as a result produce something with no narrative and moreover something which is fit only for the trash can on your mac/pc. Once this has occurred a number of times invariably they may dip their toe in the pool of holga ites, but once again fail to produce what they may have seen elsewhere. It requires a modicum of ability to produce an image worthy of considered praise, with this type of camera, unfortunately they do not recognise this and continue to bump along the photoshop road producing endless record shots with ever increasing amounts of PS added. Manipulation in one form or another has always been with us, the choice of dev/ paper etc., burning in dodging at the printing stage along with a host of techniques one can use. A good image should communicate with the viewer, it should stir the soul and draw the person in, it should have within it a narrative and pose questions, I'm pleased to say that your images fit that description, so keep on bashing the drum sir, along with your west coast hugging buddies!!
Dave Carrington: Thank you on behalf of the West Coast Hugging Collective: power to the tweakers! smile
Well said Dave,couldnt agree more.Cracking shot.
Dave Carrington: Ta, Mick! Glad you like it.
  • urban8
  • United Kingdom
  • 5 Oct 2008, 09:06
I would say I fall in between both camps, Dave.

I personally try to achieve the best result in terms of overall image (composition, lighting, colour, DoF, background, setting, etc) I possibly can when pressing the shutter button as that is me using & improving any skill & eye for detail I have developed over several years of trying. And then once downloaded onto the PC, I happily fiddle around with cropping, lighting & contrast to improve the final image. And I have cleaned up an image on just a few limited occasions too, but just a few.

However, what I personally don't like is digital messing-about just for the sake of it, not to improve the image itself. And there's so terrible results of this on SC too.

And I know some people who will not even bother to use any photographic skills whatsoever at the outset cos they can use PS to remove & change anything & everything they don't like, recompose, flip it around, add a new background, introduce a large moon in the dusk-sky, etc, etc.

But surely, that's why we all do this for the subjectivity of creating something YOU as an individual likes, not for the masses? If every image was the same, it'd be rather boring.
Dave Carrington: Agreed! It's possible to lift an everyday shot into something better (I know, I've done it a few times!), but that is part of the fun of PP. But, if there is a limit, I'm not going to endorse or decide when it's been overtaken because who am I to judge? I think if you are prepared to share it with everyone, & you like it, then post it!
  • Mal
  • United Kingdom
  • 6 Oct 2008, 18:51
what's wrong with puppies in socks Dave? Have you lost your festive spirit?...grin

There is room for all but those with strong opinions against styles and techniques are rarely people to pay much attention to! lovely image Dave. mal
Dave Carrington: Absolutely nothing wrong with a puppy buried in a sock as far as I'm concerned! smile
  • anniedog
  • United Kingdom
  • 8 Oct 2008, 10:01
I've been reading the comments with great interest and have to say I agree with most of what is said. But in the end it does come down to personal taste and I prefer my shots more natural looking than some of the highly manipulated, HDR stuff you see a lot of.I agree that manipulation is as old as the hills, or at least as old as the history of photography, but in the darkroom, manipulation requires considerable skill. What I object to is the kind of hit the button and see what effect we can get in Photoshop - anyone can do that - as my lecturer said, even a trained monkey! I expect a spate of puppies in socks images on SC now!

Back to your image - as I haven't seen the original, I can't tell if this is an improvement but it certainly ticks the boxes for atmosphere and drama.
Dave Carrington: Hi, Ingrid. I take your point re. monkeys: yes, it's easy to mess about in photoshop & get carried away, but, if it's done well, it can be a great artistic tool. To put it into some kind of perspective: going to watch a Shakespeare play for the costumes: you're missing the point!
Creo que has hecho un buen trabajo aqui!
Dave Carrington: I'll take that as a yes, Jose! smile

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